fastclemmy.com

La folie des listes

# 05-11-2003

C'est un message sur la mailing-list des pompeurs qui m'a amené à la réflexion suivante : abuse-t-on des listes en XHTML ?

La tendance à la sémantique à tout crin nous a amené à utiliser des balises presque oubliées depuis l'adoption massive des éditeurs WYSIWYG. On a bien compris qu'un paragraphe était contenu dans un <p></p>, que les titres devaient être balisés par des <h1></h1>, etc. Et puis petit à petit, l'utilisation des listes, principalement non-ordonnées (<ul></ul>) est devenu très courant voire trop courant. Partout, dans les textes, les barres de menus, les différents éléments devaient être rangés dans des listes. Ben oui quoi, un menu c'est une liste d'items.

Certes, mais si on continue comme ça toutes nos pages web vont devenir des méga-listes !

Prenons l'exemple d'une liste de liens dans List-a-matic. On voit bien que le code HTML est redondant : chaque item est en fait compris dans une balise <a></a> qui elle-même est cernée par une balise <li></li>. Quel intérêt ? Une suite de liens n'indique-t-elle pas de facto qu'il s'agit d'un menu de navigation ? En plus côté CSS, on est obligé de définir successivement les propriétés de la liste, des éléments de la liste et enfin des liens en eux-mêmes. Ceci n'excluant nullement des bugs d'affichage avec IE. Peu d'intérêt sémantique, code redondant et code plus long, pour le coup voilà une belle liste d'inconvénients.

D'autant qu'avec un minimum d'effort on peut arriver au même résultat en stylant uniquement les <a></a>.

Ce n'est qu'un petit exemple anodin, mais il a pour but de montrer qu'utiliser des listes c'est bien, mais attention à ne pas devenir mono-maniaque !

#xhtmlCSS

Vos commentaires

be-rewt - site -
Le problème d'utiliser la balise uniquement pour une liste de liens est le suivant: comment différencier les liens entre eux quand on désactive le CSS ? On se retrouve avec un tas de liens qui se suivent sans savoir où en sont les limites... A moins d'êtree assez perspicaces pour regarder les espaces non soulignés... Vicieux !
Il est bon de proposer au moins des séparateurs entre les liens, séparateurs que l'on peut retirer du flux grâce aux CSS.

Sam - site -
Non, une liste de liens n'est pas de facto un menu. On pourrait très bien trouver une liste de liens au beau milieu d'un paragraphe rédigé, et ça serait tout sauf un menu.
La liste non ordonnée à l'avantage de permettre une représentation visuelle "qui a du sens" dès le rendu par défaut du HTML.
Celà dit, je souscrit complètement à ton avis sur les abus... Les nouvelles (bonnes) idées sont souvent perverties à force d'éxagération naïve, et c'est le cas des listes. Je crois que pour les menus elles servent très bien, mais aller plus loin confine souvent au ridicule.

Denis Boudreau - site -
En même temps, faut pas oublier que pour la notion d'accessibilité, une liste demeure la manière la plus signifiante de repérer une série d'éléments et de les isoler dans in masse de liens suivis.

zest -
Oui et...non, car effectivement pour un code optimisé, c'est à dire simple et efficace, l'emploi abusif ces derniers temps des listes, tends a me rappeler l'utilisation à outrance des tableaux il ya quelques années. Mais le but suprême du "code" et sa finalité n'est-il pas tout simplement le résultat. Qu'importe le flacon pourvu qu'on ait l'ivresse. Si la rapidité de chargement et l'interopérabilité au travers des différants navigateurs sont respectées pourquoi ne pas utiliser et autres balises à volonté. Je suis toujours circonspect de voir certain site au "code" phénomenal et au design misérable. Mais bon...
PS: je mets code entre guillemets car je tiens à rappeller que le CSS, XHTML ,DHTML ne sont PAS des langages de programmation !!

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